Proceedings, Third National Conference Workmen's Compensation for Industrial Accidents. National Conference on Workmen's Compensation for Industrial Accidents
risk inherent or necessary as a risk of the trade. The bill does not take away any statutory or common law rights that the workman now has, but he must choose between one or the other. If he begins proceedings under the compensation act, he loses his right to sue and vice versâ.
The importance of this bill, in my mind, is very great. I think that is the way to go at it in this country. If the employer and the workman both profit by the enterprise they should both assume the risk of the trade, and that principle, I think, is what is established by our compulsory compensation bill.
I want to make clear that the list of dangerous trades in this law is not an inclusive list of dangerous trades by any means. There is no reason why we should draw the line where we did draw it. Our reason in selecting these dangerous trades instead of all dangerous trades, as we originally had our list drawn, was a purely utilitarian opportunist reason. It was our solution of the second legislative difficulty in this country; that is, the interstate competition. We thought that it would be a good plan to get our entering wedge in on the industries which did not directly compete with other industries outside of the State. For instance, the builder in New York State competes with the builder in New York State, generally speaking; and the railroad in New York State competes with the railroad in New York State, generally speaking, and not with the outside railroads. We are quite frank in saying that we thought we could get this bill passed if we did not make it hit the manufacturer to begin with. We intend that it shall cover him in time, and just as soon as we can, make it cover him; but it seemed a fair as well as a wise thing to introduce the principle and get the employers used to the burden, and get the insurance rate adjusted for injuries, so that it would not be a serious competitive difficulty.
Those two reasons, then, explain this bill; we limited it to the risks of trade instead of having it cover all accidents in the course of employment, as the representative list did, because we believed that that was the constitutional line for us to act on, and we limited it to those dangerous trades which, generally speaking, are not involved in interstate competition, because we thought we could pass it easier and it would be fair to try it out on those employers first.
Prof. Henry R. Seager (New York): I should like to add just a word along the line of the practical difficulties that all of our commissions face when it comes to getting legislation. Some members of the New York Commission felt that it would be a mistake to try to make any report at all this last winter when the proposal was first advanced. We felt that we had a very big problem. That, in addition to studying the experience in this country and getting reports on European laws, we ought to send some one over or go over ourselves to the other side and see just how the European laws operate. The consideration that finally led us to make a report, and try to get legislation, was the political situation in New York.
As the winter advanced it became very clear that it was a highly opportune time to get through legislation that had popular sentiment behind it. The legislative members of our Commission were so impressed by that aspect of the matter that they were impatient, some of them, to bring in bills without any report at all to back them up, and that consideration finally led all of us to feel that we should hurry as much as we could and get in the best report we could in the short time that was allowed, with the hope that the bills we recommend, if reasonable and fair, would be passed. It was that situation that led us to make a report which at some points was not altogether satisfactory to the members of the Commission; and that consideration, I think, justified our action because, as it turned out, the Legislature was in a mood to act on our recommendations. The voluntary law was a bill, aside from the compensation feature of it, that had slumbered in Albany for five or six years in spite of the efforts of the labor representatives to have something done. That it was a favorable situation was shown by the comparative ease with which that bill was passed, in somewhat modified form, when we put ourselves behind it.
It is those practical considerations, gentlemen, it seems to me, that we must consider quite as much as the ideal solution of this question for many years in this country. I say that because as a professor of political economy, as a theorist, I perhaps would not be expected to take that view of the matter.
George W. Smith (New York): I was sort of a moderate edition of the employers' representative on the New York State Commission. I was one against about thirteen. Of course, you can imagine that my advice could not have been considered very seriously, but I am willing to say that they certainly did give me considerable consideration, for the reason that I was not really a radical against any legislation that would be fair; and I feel that the employers of New York State felt largely as I did.
I cannot help but remark, however, about the point that Professor Seager raised, of the opportunity that seemed to present itself at this session of our Legislature. I do not suppose I ought to criticise, but I hope that similar conditions will not exist in other States at the time this legislation is up, because I think it is of a very important character, and should not be put through for any personal reasons or in order to bring political capital to any of the legislative members. I suppose it is pretty well known that there were a great many shattered reputations in the Legislature of New York State this year, and it is always a pretty handy thing to have around an opportunity to do something for the boys that work hard for a living. I do not blame those that were in favor of this legislation for taking advantage of that very favorable opportunity, but it certainly was a good opportunity and was well taken advantage of.
I had to smile, however, on a number of occasions at the attitude of some of the labor representatives. They did not seem to realize, a good many of them, how important this legislation was and how beneficial it was to them; but if they could have gone behind the scenes, and had a heart-to-heart talk with some of the employers, they would have realized that the employers did not like it very well.
As for one of the bills being designated as a voluntary or optional bill by the removal and absolute wiping out almost of all of the employers' defenses, it practically makes that almost a compulsory bill. However, I believe that all the employers in the country realize that the time has arrived when some fair legislation must be enacted, and the only thing that I think should be well considered is not to go so far that you are going to put the country in a bad financial state.
Prof. Seager: If Mr. Mitchell would say something about the labor situation when we started out I think it would be very interesting.
John Mitchell (New York): The measures have been discussed so thoroughly by the other members of the Commission that I shall not attempt to discuss them now. When this Commission was first appointed in New York State, as Miss Eastman stated, the workmen knew very little about the systems of compensation in Europe, and they knew little about the principles of workmen's compensation. The Commission was appointed not because of a demand for workmen's compensation, but because of a demand for a comprehensive system of employers' liability. But after the Commission was appointed, and it was suggested that they go into an investigation of workmen's compensation, the unions took the matter up and made investigations on their own account, and drafted bills which they thought would cover the matter to their satisfaction. Of course, as was to be expected, they asked for a rate of compensation that was very much higher than anything that prevailed in Europe.
While I, personally, was in sympathy with the workmen in their desire to have the very best system of compensation that it was possible to obtain, and one better than any they have in Europe, yet I think that the more conservative of the trade-union workmen recognized that we could not go very far beyond the system prevailing in England or in Great Britain until other States, and particularly the adjoining States, should also take up the matter. The consequence is, however, that as the matter was developed, and as the workmen were brought into the discussion of the matter with the Commission, that very many of them modified their original demands and were willing to accept the principles laid down both in the optional and in the compulsory bills which have passed the Legislature.
It is, of course, not to be expected, either in New York or anywhere else, I assume, that the bill passed by the New York Legislature meets at all the desires of the workingmen. That is to say, they will continue to ask what they will eventually succeed in having, a compulsory law that will include all the trades. I think there is no special demand for a bill to include agricultural and